An Interview with Carrie McLaren of Stay Free

Continued

CM: Sure. I love Google. And Viva paper towels; my mom made me start buying those. Most of the time, I can’t tell the difference between brands, though. That’s when branding matters the most — when the products are indistinguishable.

MM: What five brands do you find the most abhorrent?

CM: Oh, god, I dunno.... Disney, DuPont, Dow, Hummer, all the oil companies. Nike isn’t the worst, social responsibility-wise, but I still hate them.

MM: Why Disney?

CM: Disney does all the same garbage that all the large media corporations do, but Disney is especially censorious. They’ve gone after daycare centers that paint Disney characters on the walls for copyright infringement. They are one of the major lobbyists for extending the copyright term, yet they owe their very existence to the ability to use things in the public domain. All the old Disney movies—Pinnochio, Cinderella, Snow White, etc.—were based on stories in the public domain. Mickey himself was a parody of a Buster Keaton character. And, whenever Disney remakes something, it sucks all the life out of it. Disney is, I think, the perfect illustration of “friendly fascism” — a sinister force of darkness lurking behind a bright and cheery facade.

MM: Where did the idea for the Illegal Art exhibition come from? Was there some moment of revelation in which you realized that the circumstances were right, given the Supreme Court case, Lessig’s work and everything else?

CM: It actually wasn’t my idea; it was Brewster Kahle’s. He’s friends with Lawrence Lessig, the copyright scholar. He approached me in January 2001 and asked me if Stay Free! would want to do it, so I said yes.

MM: So they needed an organization willing to be sued?

CM: No, that wasn’t a concern.

MM: Wasn’t there some possibility that this show could lead to litigation?

CM: That’s always a possibility but it wasn’t something we thought much about going into it.

MM: Did you and Kahle accomplish what you set out to with the show?

CM: Yeah, we set out to raise awareness of copyright law and get people talking about it, and that’s what has happened. Tons of people came out to the shows in New York and Chicago, and San Francisco should be even bigger. Plus people in a few other cities (Albany, Boston, Philadelphia) are looking into bringing it to their areas. And we’ve been getting lots of press.

MM: Any response from Disney, U2, The Beatles or anyone else on the other end of artistic equation?

CM: Nope. We put out a CD featuring a bunch of tracks that we didn’t get permission for. One of those artists, Steinsky, asked for a free copy, but no one has threatened us.

MM: How did you market the show? And, on the subject of marketing, how do you market Stay Free!?

CM: “Market” isn’t really the word. We promoted the show by sending out email and faxing press releases. Between Alexandra and I, we’ve got quite a few press contacts. I don’t really do any advertising for Stay Free! I don’t even send out promo copies; there’s no budget for that.
MM: Deepak Chopra recently made a statement concerning the current situation in Iraq. He suggested, among other things, that Iraq needed to embrace western culture. Specifically, he said that Iraq could use a Disney World theme park. I’m curious to know your thoughts on that.

CM: My god, what CAN you say? He’s insane. We actually did a parody of this story. (You can find it at http://stayfreemagazine.org/public/
deepak.html)
What’s scary is that a lot of people share his view. But the fact is that Iraq can’t have Disneyland because we’ve got it — we’ve got all the money. The very things that make us rich are what make other countries poor. We rely on the cheap labor and natural resources of other countries to fuel our cars and restaurants and other crap. It’s senseless to talk about “what Iraq needs” while ignoring that connection. I’m sure the Iraqi people would love Disneyland. They’d also love food, water, and not having bombs rain down on them.

MM: Is Stay Free! taking an active role in the anti-war movement?

CM: Alexandra and I have been going to the protests but we’re not active in any official capacity.

MM: At what point do you just give up? What’s the tipping point? When does it become impossible for people, no matter how organized they are, to reclaim the American political agenda from big business and their army of lobbyists?

CM: The trick is not to think in global terms like that. When you consider everything we’re up against it seems impossible. So you set your sights on relatively modest goals — write a moving article or pull off a funny prank or get people out to the protest. These little acts may not seem like much in themselves but they lead to bigger effects. There’s been a ton of media coverage given to the SUV backlash lately and that wouldn’t have happened without the scattered efforts of activists operating in the margins. Same thing with the Iraq protests. The antiwar movement started with activist types but thanks to word of mouth and alternative media has gained a lot of mainstream support.

MM: I just heard Arianna Huffington (the new, populist Arianna Huffington) speak a few days ago and she said much the same thing. People were asking what politicians we could count on to stand up for these marginal views that many of us share. She responded that when the movement got large enough, they would “jump in to lead the parade.” She wasn’t being sarcastic or snide either. She was saying it as though it was a good thing. In her opinion, when they know that it won’t cost them a seat in the House or Senate, they’ll take more chances. She then mentioned the instance where MoveOn.org was able to raise $3 million for Paul Wellstone in just a few hours time when he’d lost a few of his more prominent backers after voting against the motion on Iraq. That, in her opinion, will embolden other politicians.

CM: Politicians will “jump in and lead the parade” only after there’s serious campaign finance reform. We need to make that happen first. But even if no politician jumps in that doesn’t make our efforts worthless. Electoral politics is important but it isn’t the end-all and be-all. We can work on building our own institutions — our own media, our own culture and social networks. That’s what I try to do with Stay Free!, anyway. Through it I’ve made a lot of friends and talked with a lot of people I never would have met otherwise. On one hand, it’s really fun, and on the other, it’s helping to build alternatives to this money-driven system.

MM: It seems only appropriate that I follow up now with a series of questions stolen from the Harvard Business Review. According to their most recent issue, these questions will help you determine how “scalable” an entrepreneur you are, how well you can grow with a business after starting it. This first question is supposed to tell us whether you are a “curious learner.” I just like the question. If you could return to school and study something new, what would it be?

CM: There are a million things I’d love to study. I avoided history in college because high school history was so bad, so I’ve love to do more history.... especially the history of medicine or psychology. But if I were going to go back to school, I’d choose classes based on the teacher instead of the subject. Any subject can be interesting if you have a good teacher.

MM: I read in the latest issue of StayFree! that you used to have a Saturday Night Live-inspired sketch comedy group in the fourth-grade. Do you regret not pursuing that in later years, or do you feel as though what you do now in some ways fulfills that?

CM: No regrets. No way. I don’t like being on stage.

MM: OK, back to the Harvard Business Review. How would you describe your dream house? This is supposed to show us your “visionary capacity.”

CM: My dream house would come with my dream man and my dream library, plus furniture from the period before things were designed to fall apart. I’ve been having a hard time finding good lamps lately. My dream house would have good lamps. And hardwood floors, natural lighting, good neighbors, someone to help clean it... H

***

You can read more about Carrie McLaren’s projects and Stay Free! magazine online at www.stayfreemagazine.org. Information concerning the Illegal Art show can be found at www.illegal-art.org.

Back to Crimewave Articles